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Dennis L mentioned that I use a top bracing system that I have developed. This is something I started working on a bit over 4 years ago in responce to a request from one of my wood customers. It has gone through a number of iterations, but the present state is about what I consider pretty final. I will not go into a lengthy explanation for now, but can attempt to answer any questions later. Here are a couple of braced tops (pretty much OM size):



All bracing is spruce. The curved ones are made from bent laminations. You can ignore everything above the soundhole. That is specifically set up for my adjustable neck system. That part can be standard steelstring bracing. I have mostly done this development using my own white spruce to keep the variables down to a minimum. Not sure what it would do with other spruces or cedar. Since white spruce has a very high crossgrain stiffness, something like sitka might turn out considerably different, I don't really know. I get a really loud, but well balanced sound from this and a pretty well "played in" sound right from the git-go.

If anybody is interested in trying this out, have at it. I will assist as much as I can.

Grant GoltzGrant Goltz38715.9912847222

looks interesting for sure. Looks like a lot more braces than I like to use (mass wise), but hey if your getting results then go for it!

John Mayes38716.0097685185

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Run!!! It's spruce spiders from outer-space!!!    Seriously though, thanks, Grant, for sharing those photos. It's always encouraging when someone steps outside the standard borders, and gets good results.

Grant,

There are two things about your top bracing that I find intriguing. One, your X brace is off-center toward the treble side, which I'm thinking probably improves the highs because this is the area where the top will be the stiffest. Two, you have a lateral cross brace at the saddle line, running from the crux of the X, which serves to stiffen the entire lower bout. On the classicals I've built with a cross brace that runs under the saddle, I've noticed an improvement in sustain over other bracing designs I've used.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Grant
in this picture you sent me a few months ago I noticed an empty space in the transversal brace under the saddle: are you leaving room for the bridge pins or is it intended for a pickup?



The upper bout bracing recalls the powerful "A" bracing seen in some old Martin now reintroduced in some models; the upper part of the "A" crosses the upper bout brace but doesn't touch it am I right? Does it end into headblock channels?

Thank you - Luigiggdelazzer38716.1453356482

This one should show the under-saddle transverse brace particular...



and the room left at the upper bout crossing. Hope this helps understanding my question.



Thanks again
Gg

I recognize that this looks like a lot of mass. But it does not seem to be in actual function. I generally use white spruce sapwood which has a low density, but a high strength.

Luigi, the transverse brace is located precisely under the bridge saddle, so the bridge pins go behind it. The space is to allow for some styles of pickups.

The "A" at the upper end does not contact the transverse brace, it passes through cutouts. The ends are notched into the headblock (actually the headblock is notched to fit over the upper ends of the braces). The upper transverse brace is smaller stock, 1/8" wide, because on my adjustable neck systen the fingerboard extension is not glued to the top. It is supported by an extension of the neck, which you can see on the two neck blanks in my first photo. There is a cutout in the top for this, so there is no downward pressure on the top.

Suppose I should show the adjustable neck system, too

Grant

[QUOTE=Grant Goltz]
Suppose I should show the adjustable neck system, too

Grant[/QUOTE]

Yes you should!

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

[QUOTE=John Mayes] [QUOTE=Grant Goltz]
Suppose I should show the adjustable neck system, too

Grant[/QUOTE]

Yes you should![/QUOTE]

OK, Don't have time today, but I will try to get to it over the weekend. Actually the entire build of the prototype guitar is posted on the other (no "s") luthierforum, but it is rather long and includes everything about the build including cutting wood purfling strips with a pasta cutter

Grant

Grant I'd head over to that other forum and have a look but I have been banned, and I have never even posted on it! He and I are neighbours, I guess I just live too close. So I would be interested to see at least some of it here.

Thanks

Shane

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Canada

Yeah, I can't get in, either, and I also have never posted. It had been a while since I went over, and today, no-go.

Oh well, not a big deal....

Grant--what are you trying to accomplish with the curved (laminated) braces?

A penny for your thoughts....

SteveSteve Kinnaird38716.5565856481

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Shane and Mario,
I've been banned and readmitted a few hours later.   Shane's neighbour is quite nervous

Luigi

Ig to banned from the site too. But you can just reregister under a new name if you really wanna see stuff there... Personally I think the site is clumsy, and disorganized looking...

The reason some of us got banned is caused we spoke the truth when we called out the crazy go nuts, over the top, biased, wacky, advertising the dude does.

And who needs his spruce when we can get the same stuff (although he claims you can only get it from him) from shane!John Mayes38716.677337963

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

The reason some of us got banned is caused we spoke the truth when we called out

I figured as much. Oh well....

I live in a spruce forest, too. I should maybe start selling mine as "Curmudgie" spruce, seeing as how much of a curmudgeon I can be at times... <bg> Then I'll hire Tony Little to help write the advertising campaign, or maybe that overly-hiper dude with the funky accent that used to sell everything from super-duper frying pans to abdominal crunchers on infomercials........

L@@K at @UR $PRUCE B4 U L@@K at the OTHER$$$$!!!!!!!!!Mario38716.7220486111

Hey I like that "Curmudgie" spruce. Need a bit more hype though. Infomercials? I didn't know you had TV way up north.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

[QUOTE=Mario] The reason some of us got banned is caused we spoke the truth when we called out

I figured as much. Oh well....

I live in a spruce forest, too. I should maybe start selling mine as "Curmudgie" spruce, seeing as how much of a curmudgeon I can be at times... <bg> Then I'll hire Tony Little to help write the advertising campaign, or maybe that overly-hiper dude with the funky accent that used to sell everything from super-duper frying pans to abdominal crunchers on infomercials........

L@@K at @UR $PRUCE B4 U L@@K at the OTHER$$$$!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

I think that is the first time you've made me laugh out loud Mario.

Mad props to Mario and his Curmudgie spruce!

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Anyway....And back to our original broadcasting! Sorry for the seguay Grant. There are just a lot less "rules and attitude" here, I don't think Lance has banned anyone yet. So for those of us that haven't had the opportunity to see what you have posted over there, we would be appreciative if you put at least some of it here.

Take care and thanks.

ShaneShane Neifer38716.7744907407

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Canada

I have no problem with posting all of the info here. Just mentioned the other in case somebody was curious while I get time to get things up here. Need to dig through my files and resize some photos, etc. and was too busy today finishing up a guitar player's chair. But that probably does not fit appropriately on this forum

One thing that I do not have is secrets. I am willing to share anything that I have. And if the whole world could do that, it would be a better place. Too bad we can't all respect each other, be a bit humble, and all get along and be happy.

Well, I need to run down to the corner and buy a bottle of wine.

Grant

[QUOTE=Grant Goltz] I have no problem with posting all of the info here. Just mentioned the other in case somebody was curious while I get time to get things up here. Need to dig through my files and resize some photos, etc. and was too busy today finishing up a guitar player's chair. But that probably does not fit appropriately on this forum


One thing that I do not have is secrets. I am willing to share anything that I have. And if the whole world could do that, it would be a better place. Too bad we can't all respect each other, be a bit humble, and all get along and be happy.

Well, I need to run down to the corner and buy a bottle of wine.

Grant [/QUOTE]
I'll second that. Grant of course we want to see the chair. Bobc38716.8668171296

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I'd like to see your chair as well. Curious how it compares to my pickin glider.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Grant--I'd still like to know something about the curved braces.
Since a penny didn't do it, I'm now prepared to offer a nickel.

Don't keep pressing your luck, though. What with the subscription costs to the OLF rising every week, I'm running low on cash.

Thanks,

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve ya mean your subscription costs to Bob's zoot don't ya?

Shane

Grant, we discuss all projects here, we are all humble and you find that we all get along very well and have the odd long threads about that. This is a very 'inclusive' forum open to all that have an opinion and a desire to share. Actually there used to be a banner that described the forums view of craftsman that was 'borrowed' from one of our members. In essence it said that to teach is the final leg of becoming a true craftsman. I think that you find that that sense is what truly motivates our collective participation, sometimes it is almost Zen like!

Thanks for adding your wealth to our treasure.

Shane

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Canada

Steve, No need to offer a nickel

The curved braces - OK, first I have to tell you that I am a stubborn German and do not listen to anybody

One thing that I do (among many) is flintknapping, making stone tools. This is a craft that involves shaping of a piece of stone by applying energy at a point source and having a precise and predictable pathway for that energy (shock wave)to travel through the stone and detach a controled fragment. Besides the point of impact/pressure, the primary controling factor is the surface configuration of the stone. One utilizes the small ridges on the surface of the stone for this control. The ridges are pathways of increased mass and the energy will follow these ridges at a higher velocity than it does the intervening lows. It then spreads laterally from these ridges. The result is that if the ridge curves, the detached flake is curved with the ridge down the center. If the ridge forks, a forked flake is detached, etc. Hope you can follow this.

So, the curved braces (mostly about 1/4" tall and triangular in cross section) are my attempt to duplicate this effect. Does it work that way in wood? I really do not know, but since we are dealing with physics of solids, hopefully there is some similarity. The instruments with these tops do have a very fast responce and very clean tone and are very loud. Perhaps the curved braces are one factor.

Well, there is my $.25 explanation, FWIW

Grant Grant Goltz38717.4327199074

Grant...I'd like to see your chair, too. Anything that makes a guitar or guitarist play or live better is appropriate here!

[QUOTE=Shane Neifer] Steve ya mean your subscription costs to Bob's zoot don't ya?[/QUOTE]

Shane...Great idea!!! A "Zoot-of-the-Month" club! We just send Bob all our money each month, and he sends us some primo wood. Brilliant!